Committee/Meetings/2008 06 10
From AnnodexFoundation
No minutes were taken off this meeting, but here are the irc logs.
Jun 10 11:42:43 <nessy> meeting in 2hrs20 ?
Jun 10 11:43:21 <fishkandy> yupx0rs!
Jun 10 11:43:30 <nessy> roxors
Jun 10 12:04:19 <jmworx> can't make it
Jun 10 12:21:34 <nessy> :(
Jun 10 12:21:50 <nessy> jmworx: when are you going back to Canada?
Jun 10 12:43:27 * fishkandy has quit ("Fish!")
Jun 10 12:55:09 <jmworx> nessy: Flying on the 23rd, though we'll spend the last week in a hotel
Jun 10 13:03:42 * fishkandy (n=conrad@61.194.21.25) has joined #annodex
Jun 10 13:06:11 * fishkandy is now known as kfish
Jun 10 13:50:28 <mdale> I always forget... #anxassoc?
Jun 10 13:50:56 <mdale> that's not it...
Jun 10 13:59:14 <kfish> mdale, nah, this meeting is right here
Jun 10 13:59:33 <mdale> ah oky ;)
Jun 10 14:00:02 <johnf> mdale: did you have a chance to sort out copyright for metavid?
Jun 10 14:00:06 <nessy> public meeting today :)
Jun 10 14:01:58 <nessy> ok, shall we get started?
Jun 10 14:02:36 <mdale> johnf: how should I sort out ? just put a copyright michael dale / (included libraries have their own license?) in a COPYRIGHT text file in the root?
Jun 10 14:03:01 <nessy> what license?
Jun 10 14:03:05 <nessy> MIT?
Jun 10 14:03:07 <johnf> mdale: yeah that would be fine
Jun 10 14:03:16 <johnf> ie just put it in COPYING above the license
Jun 10 14:03:17 <mdale> GPL2 ... cuz its tied in with mediaWiki
Jun 10 14:03:21 <mdale> oky
Jun 10 14:03:36 <johnf> actually let me just check how mediawiki guys do it
Jun 10 14:04:58 <mdale> I will copy from them ;)
Jun 10 14:05:26 <johnf> mdale: ok in every file you know how you have @author
Jun 10 14:05:33 <johnf> just add * @copyright Copyright 2005, var Arnfjr Bjarmason
Jun 10 14:05:56 <nessy> heh
Jun 10 14:05:59 <johnf> or similar :)
Jun 10 14:06:02 <mdale> oky
Jun 10 14:06:38 <nessy> ok - why don't we "start" with updates on Metavidwiki then? ;-)
Jun 10 14:07:15 <nessy> mdale: any news you'd like to share/discuss?
Jun 10 14:07:39 <mdale> ah... hmm
Jun 10 14:07:59 <mdale> rolled out some updates recently remote embedding is working better in IE now ;)
Jun 10 14:08:08 <nessy> nice!
Jun 10 14:08:15 <nessy> javascript updates?
Jun 10 14:08:22 <mdale> http://metavid-mike.blogspot.com/
Jun 10 14:08:25 <mdale> yea
Jun 10 14:09:11 <mdale> the little "CC" in the upper left .. pulls in CMML tracks listed in the ROE xml.
Jun 10 14:09:20 <mdale> upper right I mean
Jun 10 14:09:44 <nessy> cool
Jun 10 14:10:06 <nessy> what are they?
Jun 10 14:10:16 <nessy> the full file or related snippets?
Jun 10 14:10:17 * johnf has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Jun 10 14:10:51 <nessy> oh - the text transcript of the excerpt?
Jun 10 14:10:52 <mdale> all CMML can be queried with time stamp requests so its just the CMML for the time range of the video that has been embed.
Jun 10 14:11:00 <nessy> that's totally awesome!
Jun 10 14:11:15 * johnf (n=johnf@203-158-51-218.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #annodex
Jun 10 14:12:19 <nessy> cortado on my mac has a problem with the sound, btw
Jun 10 14:12:28 <nessy> it is very stuttery
Jun 10 14:12:37 <nessy> is anyone still working on cortado?
Jun 10 14:13:56 <mdale> wikipedia fork is more maintained than the fluendo one.
Jun 10 14:14:39 <nessy> how's your summer of code student coming along?
Jun 10 14:16:00 <mdale> the one working on flash support is doing well...
Jun 10 14:16:16 <nessy> cool
Jun 10 14:16:24 <mdale> the xiph one.. no so much ...had a family emergency of some sort
Jun 10 14:16:36 <mdale> but should be back on board this week.. I will keep you all updated
Jun 10 14:16:50 <nessy> does that go into the core codebase or in a branch?
Jun 10 14:17:02 <mdale> the flash stuff?
Jun 10 14:17:07 <nessy> yea
Jun 10 14:18:17 <nessy> btw: the NSW government project doesn't seem to get much support for using metavidwiki - it seems that politicians profoundly dislike recording of government sittings
Jun 10 14:18:31 <nessy> so they dislike such a flexible publication and re-use platform
Jun 10 14:18:42 <nessy> it will probably not happen from within government
Jun 10 14:18:48 <mdale> yea... I can't imagine our government funding our work ;)
Jun 10 14:19:08 <nessy> however, the streams are being published and the transcripts, too, so anybody could set it up if they liked
Jun 10 14:19:16 <kfish> nessy, just tell them it let's them post-edit their speeches
Jun 10 14:19:27 <nessy> I tried ;)
Jun 10 14:19:33 <kfish> lol
Jun 10 14:20:10 <nessy> mdale: just briefly on the cortado thing - is there a bug tracker for the wikipedia fork?
Jun 10 14:20:22 <nessy> heya kfish, btw !
Jun 10 14:20:24 * nessy waves
Jun 10 14:20:51 <kfish> heya nessy!
Jun 10 14:21:19 <mdale> nessy: yea... j^ put some bug/patches in there.... the flash stuff is being committed as stubs..but I will set up an experimental branch tomorrow since its too precarious to have the live site and development on the same svn now days.
Jun 10 14:21:35 * nessy nods
Jun 10 14:21:44 <mdale> j^ put some (bug reports) not new bugs ;)
Jun 10 14:21:53 <nessy> lol
Jun 10 14:22:03 <nessy> got a link?
Jun 10 14:22:11 * nessy wants to add some bug reports, too
Jun 10 14:23:05 <mdale> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=cortado
Jun 10 14:23:13 <nessy> thanks!
Jun 10 14:23:31 <nessy> johnf: wanna give an update on debian packaging?
Jun 10 14:24:07 <johnf> so the latest version of liboggz is in debian sid and ubuntu intrepid
Jun 10 14:24:09 <johnf> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=liboggz
Jun 10 14:24:22 <kfish> word
Jun 10 14:24:29 <johnf> and now that I read that page its even made it into testing
Jun 10 14:24:42 <johnf> I have packages for fishsound and some others
Jun 10 14:24:45 <denisc> awesome - goes to upgrade...
Jun 10 14:24:50 <johnf> http://inodes.org/debs
Jun 10 14:25:01 <johnf> http://inodes.org/johnf/debs that should be
Jun 10 14:25:18 <johnf> but I'm waitong on jaq to get back from brazil so he can get to his gpg key and upload them
Jun 10 14:25:33 <johnf> Have also now packaged metavidwiki and semantic mediawiki
Jun 10 14:25:50 <johnf> they are waiting on copyright notices from upstream before they go in
Jun 10 14:26:07 <nessy> upstream==mdale - lol
Jun 10 14:26:31 <johnf> thats about it
Jun 10 14:26:39 <johnf> I did want to discuss mod_annodex though
Jun 10 14:26:58 <johnf> kfish: oggzchop currently supports chopping of one ogg file via CGI right?
Jun 10 14:27:17 <kfish> johnf: yes!
Jun 10 14:27:37 <johnf> kfish: Is the plan to ditch mod_annodex and extend oggzchop?
Jun 10 14:27:41 <kfish> but it's not in a release version yet
Jun 10 14:27:51 <kfish> hmm, that's a possible plan
Jun 10 14:27:57 <kfish> though oggz-chop doesn't do anything with cmml yet
Jun 10 14:27:57 <johnf> I think its a good idea
Jun 10 14:28:11 <johnf> sure but it could :)
Jun 10 14:28:13 <kfish> yeah i think it's a good idea too, performance-wise :-)
Jun 10 14:28:15 <kfish> yeah
Jun 10 14:28:15 <johnf> although might need a rename
Jun 10 14:28:32 <kfish> if the cmml was already in an ogg stream it would work ;-)
Jun 10 14:28:55 <johnf> I'm thinking you merge oggzchop oggzmerge and oggzplit throw in some ROE and you've replace mod_annodex
Jun 10 14:29:03 <kfish> yeah pretty much
Jun 10 14:29:26 <kfish> so a good plan would be to get all the tools code and put that in a library
Jun 10 14:29:59 <johnf> wait we could call it libannodex !!
Jun 10 14:30:07 <nessy> nooooo
Jun 10 14:30:08 <mdale> I don't think muxing big rarely changing video files with small constantly changing CMML files is a good default... I mean its should just be an export format or something you do in archival not for every-day-streams IMHO
Jun 10 14:30:48 <johnf> true but leave that up to the user/admin
Jun 10 14:30:57 <johnf> the tools should still support it
Jun 10 14:31:04 <mdale> yea for sure
Jun 10 14:31:17 <johnf> since at the end of the day it could be muxng the video stream with the language audio stream you want
Jun 10 14:31:26 <mdale> right ...
Jun 10 14:32:08 <nessy> so that's about dynamically muxing any logical bitstream, not just cmml
Jun 10 14:32:55 <johnf> so thats all from me
Jun 10 14:33:22 <nessy> kfish?
Jun 10 14:33:33 <nessy> what've you been up to?
Jun 10 14:33:36 <nessy> how's Japan?
Jun 10 14:33:40 <kfish> hey
Jun 10 14:33:43 <kfish> yeah, japan is great ...
Jun 10 14:34:03 <kfish> i'Ve been kinda busy with my new job, which is all good
Jun 10 14:34:21 <kfish> as part of that i've been hacking on the ogg/vorbis elements for openmax
Jun 10 14:34:23 <kfish> bellagio.sf.net
Jun 10 14:34:33 <mdale> yea japan is great ;)
Jun 10 14:34:49 <nessy> gives me an error
Jun 10 14:34:55 <nessy> mdale: still in japan?
Jun 10 14:34:57 <mdale> no
Jun 10 14:35:16 <kfish> http://omxil.sourceforge.net/
Jun 10 14:35:16 <nessy> how was the trip?
Jun 10 14:35:18 <mdale> just reminiscing ...
Jun 10 14:35:40 <nessy> time flies...
Jun 10 14:35:46 <nessy> kfish: looks like a cool project
Jun 10 14:35:53 <kfish> it is
Jun 10 14:36:06 <kfish> openmax is kinda a more lightweight, better structured version of gstreamer
Jun 10 14:36:10 <nessy> finding any issues with the low-level stuff?
Jun 10 14:36:30 <kfish> just doing random cleanups etc.
Jun 10 14:36:58 <kfish> part of the project involves tying it to our hardware encoder/decoder chips
Jun 10 14:37:06 <kfish> and part involves making demo apps
Jun 10 14:37:31 <kfish> so i'll probably do something like generalize liboggplay to use openmax components
Jun 10 14:37:49 <nessy> oh!
Jun 10 14:38:31 <kfish> and if i have time i'll try to get some more general xiph components going
Jun 10 14:38:42 <nessy> awesome
Jun 10 14:38:44 <kfish> as currently there is an integrated ogg-vorbis component
Jun 10 14:38:55 <kfish> but no separate ogg container component, or theora, speex etc.
Jun 10 14:40:00 <nessy> any use for annotations?
Jun 10 14:40:15 <kfish> not for that job, but probably for thesis work .....
Jun 10 14:40:23 <kfish> i was talking with mdale about hacking on metavid
Jun 10 14:40:34 <nessy> sounds awesome
Jun 10 14:40:52 <kfish> yeah, just getting ideas together atm for that
Jun 10 14:41:57 <nessy> trying to publish recordings of the japanese parliament sittings?
Jun 10 14:42:25 <kfish> haha, we had a great conversation with my professor about that
Jun 10 14:42:35 <kfish> mdale did a presentation here
Jun 10 14:42:45 <nessy> cool!!
Jun 10 14:42:51 <kfish> and the professor noted that the US parliamentary videos are really boring
Jun 10 14:43:02 <kfish> apparently there's more fist-fights in the japanese parliament
Jun 10 14:43:02 <mdale> the person working on the flash piece is working on dance and performance rehearsal tagging ;) ... (so not all government tracking)
Jun 10 14:43:29 <mdale> yea the English Parliament gets more action too.
Jun 10 14:43:31 <nessy> mdale: parliament is the obvious one with high impact
Jun 10 14:43:45 <mdale> yea totally ;)
Jun 10 14:43:49 <nessy> I'm half thinking of setting one up here in my non-existant spare time
Jun 10 14:43:51 <nessy> ;)
Jun 10 14:43:59 <nessy> fist-fights!!
Jun 10 14:44:06 * nessy shakes head
Jun 10 14:44:14 <nessy> do they have women in the Japanese parliament?
Jun 10 14:44:29 <nessy> anyway...
Jun 10 14:44:36 <kfish> i think that would require giving women any respect at all in the first place
Jun 10 14:44:40 <kfish> anyway ...
Jun 10 14:44:47 * nessy nods gravely
Jun 10 14:44:56 <nessy> that's the feeling I had about Japan, too
Jun 10 14:44:58 <nessy> anyway...
Jun 10 14:45:11 <nessy> denisc: do you have any news to share?
Jun 10 14:45:23 <denisc> Not much - two things
Jun 10 14:45:36 <denisc> firstly we have someone to work on tagging material again in second semester
Jun 10 14:46:11 <denisc> secondly I am wondering whether I should abandon arkaiv and try for a mediawiki install instead
Jun 10 14:46:21 <denisc> Not in the short term though - too much stuff in the database
Jun 10 14:47:33 <denisc> Oh - and a third thing...
Jun 10 14:48:08 <nessy> yeah - the guys from Melbourne and PARADISEC are considering moving from cmmlwiki to metavidwiki
Jun 10 14:48:13 <nessy> I think it makes a lot of sense
Jun 10 14:48:44 <denisc> OK - cool - be better to share resources and user experiences I guess
Jun 10 14:49:16 <nessy> what's the third thing? I'm curious...
Jun 10 14:49:56 <denisc> Oh - a workshop in Honiara in sept to work on local independent recording - hope to demo and maybe set up a local arkaiv (or mediawiki!)
Jun 10 14:50:22 <denisc> metavidwiki sorry...
Jun 10 14:50:46 <mdale> sounds cool :)
Jun 10 14:51:09 <nessy> very cool
Jun 10 14:51:26 <denisc> Yeah - it'd be a good test as there'd be no remote net connection so it'd have to "just work" for a while...
Jun 10 14:51:38 <nessy> John just suggested we should deprecate cmmlwiki and instead suggest to people to use metavidwiki
Jun 10 14:51:53 <nessy> might be worth a sentence on the website...
Jun 10 14:52:00 <kfish> i wasn't aware anyone was still using cmmlwiki!
Jun 10 14:52:17 <nessy> yeah...
Jun 10 14:52:24 <nessy> or recommending it...
Jun 10 14:52:29 <nessy> CSIRO recently did...
Jun 10 14:52:36 <denisc> We can deprecate (again as kfish points out if anyone else is using it) arkaiv too but I'd need to convert everything across first
Jun 10 14:53:17 <nessy> I'm just thinking about a one-line notice on the website
Jun 10 14:53:33 <nessy> saying how much cooler metavidwiki is ;)
Jun 10 14:53:49 <nessy> is anyone else around? MikeS?
Jun 10 14:54:52 <nessy> doublec?
Jun 10 14:54:57 <nessy> j^?
Jun 10 14:55:07 <jmworx> I'm partially around now
Jun 10 14:55:09 <nessy> I have done nothing in the last weeks
Jun 10 14:55:22 <nessy> for Annodex :)
Jun 10 14:55:26 <nessy> I have been planning FOMS
Jun 10 14:55:41 <nessy> got in contact with the Mozilla Foundation to see if they'd provide some funding again
Jun 10 14:55:52 <nessy> and a few other things, such as getting a room
Jun 10 14:56:01 <nessy> other than that, I am still waiting to find time for ROE
Jun 10 14:56:21 <nessy> but I have proof-read the latest RFC and put a wiki page into xiph
Jun 10 14:56:35 <nessy> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/MIMETypesCodecs
Jun 10 14:56:42 <nessy> took a while to research those buggers
Jun 10 14:57:07 <nessy> on that note: kfish - you might be able to put Dirac support into liboggz
Jun 10 14:57:19 <nessy> since the header format seems to be finalized now
Jun 10 14:57:43 <kfish> yeah ... i had a discussion with ralph and ds about that a few weeks ago
Jun 10 14:57:48 <kfish> i think ralph mentioned he might do it
Jun 10 14:57:53 <kfish> so i took it off my list ;-)
Jun 10 14:57:56 <nessy> ah ok
Jun 10 14:57:58 <nessy> fair enough
Jun 10 14:58:07 <kfish> yeah, someone should
Jun 10 14:58:16 <kfish> tho i'm not even sure what tool to use to make files with
Jun 10 14:58:21 <nessy> jmworx, everyone: you might want to check if I wrote the correct spec into that wiki page
Jun 10 14:58:34 <nessy> kfish: that is a very good question
Jun 10 14:58:44 <mdale> on a technical note: I had to remove a pointer to http://svn.annodex.net/standards/roe/roe_1_0.xsd because IE parser dies when opening it
Jun 10 14:58:57 <nessy> the schroedinger stuff does it, I think
Jun 10 14:58:58 <kfish> nessy, afaiu it's a matter of using a gstreamer pipeline, not sure how else
Jun 10 14:59:15 <nessy> mdale: any bug reports? :-)
Jun 10 14:59:30 <jmworx> nessy: The "CELT " and "Speex " strings only show one space
Jun 10 14:59:31 <nessy> I'll give it a whirl - thanks for noticing
Jun 10 14:59:56 <johnf> to create an ogg dirac file you need to use gstreamer and libschrodingr. But they use the old dirac spec and the old ogg->dirac mapping
Jun 10 14:59:56 <nessy> jmworx: that would be mediawiki removing my spaces
Jun 10 15:00:07 <johnf> libdirac and dirac_encode will create you a raw dirac file
Jun 10 15:00:18 <jmworx> yeah, that's what i guessed
Jun 10 15:02:12 <nessy> I'll see if I can persuade mediawiki to display all the spaces
Jun 10 15:02:16 <nessy> thanks for noticing
Jun 10 15:02:24 <nessy> jmworx: any further news?
Jun 10 15:02:36 <jmworx> nessy: Nothing new
Jun 10 15:04:22 <nessy> how's CELT coming along?
Jun 10 15:04:54 <jmworx> slowly, but surely...
Jun 10 15:04:59 <jmworx> It's already quite usable
Jun 10 15:05:00 <nessy> noice
Jun 10 15:05:10 <jmworx> thought the bit-stream hasn't been frozen.
Jun 10 15:05:26 <jmworx> I did some listening tests and submitted a journal paper on it
Jun 10 15:05:37 <nessy> yeah - sorry I didn't find time to take part
Jun 10 15:05:50 <nessy> hope it gets accepted !
Jun 10 15:05:55 <jmworx> me too :-)
Jun 10 15:06:08 <jmworx> results of the test are at http://www.celt-codec.org/comparison/
Jun 10 15:06:49 <jmworx> with a few comments on my blog http://jmspeex.livejournal.com/3839.html
Jun 10 15:08:36 <nessy> cool
Jun 10 15:08:40 <jmworx> Good news is that CELT unexpectedly came up ahead (or equal in one case) of all other codecs.
Jun 10 15:08:51 <nessy> that's awesome
Jun 10 15:08:57 <jmworx> s/codecs/low-delay codecs/ since Vorbis wasn't tested
Jun 10 15:13:21 <nessy> ok - if we have no more things to discuss, I close the meeting and open the room back to general discussion :)
Jun 10 15:14:46 <kfish> w00t!
